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SAP284



Joined: 07 Jun 2011
Posts: 655
Location: Central, CT

PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:54 am    Post subject: Salmon Cove/River? Reply with quote

I am planning on taking a trip there tomorrow and launching near there (forgot the name of the boat launch). Anyone have any feedback on that area? I have never been there before and I wanted to fish a river cove tomorrow without getting killed by wind too much. I have a trolling motor and a drift sock so its not a huge deal, but wanted to catch some river fish.

Any feedback would be appreciated! Thanks.
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SeaDog1



Joined: 21 Dec 2009
Posts: 2629

PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

Here is the depth chart of Salmon Cove, which I took off the NOAA navigational chart of the Connecticut River.
Boat ramp is also shown just south of the cove entrance.
Name is -> "Salmon River Boat Launch"



NOTE: The cove is affected by tidal effect and the river is classed as "Class 3" paddeling near the entrance. -> BE CAREFUL Exclamation

SeaDog1


Last edited by SeaDog1 on Fri Apr 06, 2012 2:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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SeaDog1



Joined: 21 Dec 2009
Posts: 2629

PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi again,

Here is a copy of Salmon Cove out of the DEEP Lakes and Pond Guide...with ramp location shown.

Not as good as the NOAA chart .....But helpful !

Again ....BE CAREFUL Exclamation

I suggest you print out both charts and have them with you when you paddle the cove ....Oh! and IMPORTANT -> Check to see when high and low tide are.



SeaDog1
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SAP284



Joined: 07 Jun 2011
Posts: 655
Location: Central, CT

PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks! I actually just noticed I have that second map in my "Fisheries Guide to lakes and ponds of CT" book. I am planning on using my trolling motor 90% of the time to be safe!

Hopefully I can get some nice catches out of there. I know around there and Haddam Meadows there are decent spots for Pike.
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PECo



Joined: 06 Oct 2009
Posts: 5178
Location: Avon, CT

PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're kidding, right Stephen? The mouth of the Salmon River is NOT Class III on the International Scale of River Difficulty. There aren't even any rapids there.

Steve - Stephen is right that you should check the tide table before heading into Salmon Cove. It's really easy to get stuck in there at low tide. It's difficult even in a kayak after the weeds have grown in.
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SeaDog1



Joined: 21 Dec 2009
Posts: 2629

PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Phil,

NO -> I'm not kidding at all.

Salmon Cove is a Class lll water for the very reason that the outflow combined with tidal effect can increase currents with unpredictable velocity !
The cove is rated for intermdiate and experienced paddlers.

Up above the Leesville dam the Salmon River is rated as Class ll(+) waters.

Now all of the above can vary depending on the annual river outflow.
The Salmon River powered many industrial mills along its lenght due to its steep elevation drop ......That's the reason why the river is rated Class ll(+) and the cove rated Class lll.
(Note: Class lll waters do not have to have rapids to be rated as such!)

For 13 years I lived near and fished the total lenght of the river and cove and watched the whitewater slalom events each spring ....So, Yes!` I have 1st hand knowledge of the Salmon .....and all its variable moods!

SeaDog1


Last edited by SeaDog1 on Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:12 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Scratch59



Joined: 15 Sep 2011
Posts: 43
Location: South Glastonbury, CT

PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know about the tides and quality of the water, but my buddy landed a 26 pound MONSTER carp there today from shore just left of the launch... the tidal swing was pretty crazy, we were there near low tide.
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SeaDog1



Joined: 21 Dec 2009
Posts: 2629

PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

Yes! When the tide turns and is on the ebb -> the water in all the coves that are connected to the Connecticut River can flow or dump very quickly and with high velocity depending on the river's height and downriver flow speed.

Belive me -> I've run the river many times with tugboat and oil barge and dinner boats -> the river ...Really Moves Fast ! Shocked at certain times of the year!

That's why I strongly advise to "Be Careful" when in any cove and to know what the tide is doing!
Connecticut River has tidal effect all the way up to the crib at Windsor Locks...which is where the Federal Navigational Channel ends from the mouth of the river.

SeaDog1
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PECo



Joined: 06 Oct 2009
Posts: 5178
Location: Avon, CT

PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Class II is less severe than Class III. The American definition of Class III (aka Grade III) is:
Quote:
Rapids with moderate, irregular waves which may be difficult to avoid and which can swamp an open canoe. Complex maneuvers in fast current and good boat control in tight passages or around ledges are often required; large waves or strainers may be present but are easily avoided. Strong eddies and powerful current effects can be found, particularly on large-volume rivers. scouting is advisable for inexperienced parties. Injuries while swimming are rare; self-rescue is usually easy but group assistance may be required to avoid long swims. Rapids that are at the lower or upper end of this difficulty range are designated Class III- or Class III+ respectively.

So, by definition, Class III waters ARE rapids. I've been in Salmon Cove in a kayak when it went from high tide to low tide. I even almost got stuck in the tidal flat. It is NOT Grade III. Not even close. For comparison, Tariffville Gorge is Class III.
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SeaDog1



Joined: 21 Dec 2009
Posts: 2629

PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Phil,

Yeah! I knew you'd pull something like this.

And your ABSOLUTELY WRONG Exclamation

Didn't I say the Salmon River above the Leesville dam is Class ll(+)
And a Class lll doesn't need to have any rapids but be difficult to manuver in.
(Read your own posted quote again -> "difficult/complex to manuver in") !
That's where the river flow combined with tidal effect (current) can make the cove difficult....That is exactly what does happen in the cove at certain times of the year and why it got classed as such.

As I said, ...I've fished the entire lenght of the Salmon + the cove.for 13 years.
And I've watched the canoe/kayak slalom events + spoken to the paddlers many times.
And they have ALL made it known that the cove is a Class lll because of river flow combined with tide.
And I'll take these guys word any day!

Yeah! You've been in Salmon Cove -> But how many times and what seasons and river conditions? -> Not years like I have.
When you put in the time there in years and various seasons and conditions -> then....and only then can you back up your statement of being in Salmon Cove and make a declaration of what class water it is.
Never have I read a more rookie statement, then that was if there ever was one !

Also I've seen (more then once) when the Salmon river was running high and rolly, pouring over the dam, entering the cove on an ebb tide and the tidal flats churnning with whirlpools as the Ct. river and tide sucked the water out of the cove at an incredible rate, what a maelstrom that was to see Shocked
....and it was on a bright clear sunny summer day with little wind!

The quote you posted is a general statment and not a hard and fast fact -. Not set in stone! Rolling Eyes
Rivers are living things and can change from day to day.
But if you want to stick hard and fast to that quote ...and that's the way you think it has to be -> Well your fooling yourself ! -> Rivers, streams, and the Wx don't follow set written rules of any kind.
You do have a tendency to be very annal with the written text as if what's written must be so and how dare the river or stream or weather deviate from what's written!
Cheeech Exclamation Can't belive your that ramrod stiff on this.

So! .....per many experienced paddlers that have paddled the cove long before you even moved into the state -> Salmon River Cove is rated as a Class lll water because of the difficulty to manuver when river flow combines with tidal effect !
Oh! And if there is an opposing wind of a significant strength -> Well you've had that happen and know how that is ....things go from bad to worse quickly!

Uh - Uh - Uh ... Don't pull this on me -> I'm so positive, I'll put a blank check on this Exclamation ...that or you can talk to the paddlers/slalomers that have run the river and cove for years !

SeaDog1


Last edited by SeaDog1 on Sat Apr 07, 2012 8:47 am; edited 19 times in total
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SAP284



Joined: 07 Jun 2011
Posts: 655
Location: Central, CT

PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lol I didn't mean to start an issue here. I appreciate both you helping me out. I have a trolling motor, gas engine, and paddles...so I think I will be okay but I will definitely check the tide charts again. When I looked the other day I noticed it said High tide at 1 and low tide at 7. I will ensure I play it safe for sure. Ill post a report tomorrow.
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SeaDog1



Joined: 21 Dec 2009
Posts: 2629

PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi SAP,

No! You didn't !

Phil and I are both stubborn (and I am very fond of him) ....we just butt heads periodically over issues.

Not to worry -> You'll get use to us! LOL Laughing

Least we argue over things that do tend to help us and hopefully others in the end!

Oh! FYI -> There is a time difference that must be applied between the mouth of the river and points along the river for high and low water -> This could be as much as 2 hours.
Some of the river marinas have 2012 tide tables for their particular location..You may want to stop by a few and see what they have and usually free to those boaters that use their facility !!

SeaDog1
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PECo



Joined: 06 Oct 2009
Posts: 5178
Location: Avon, CT

PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stephen - If by "something like this" you mean that I would decline to accept incorrect information that you posted, yes, absolutely. If you had read what I posted, you would have seen what the very first word in the description of Class III is:
Quote:
Rapids with moderate, irregular waves which may be difficult to avoid and which can swamp an open canoe. Complex maneuvers in fast current and good boat control in tight passages or around ledges are often required; large waves or strainers may be present but are easily avoided. Strong eddies and powerful current effects can be found, particularly on large-volume rivers. scouting is advisable for inexperienced parties. Injuries while swimming are rare; self-rescue is usually easy but group assistance may be required to avoid long swims. Rapids that are at the lower or upper end of this difficulty range are designated Class III- or Class III+ respectively.

What was your source for this, anyway? Are you sure that you looked at the Salmon River in Connecticut?

I took a look at the americanwhitewater.org database for the Salmon River in Connecticut. The river is rated Class II, not Class III. And with the lack of precipitation that we've been experiencing, the river is currently running below the recommended level for paddling it even as a Class II.
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SeaDog1



Joined: 21 Dec 2009
Posts: 2629

PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Phil,

No! I totally agree with you that the river is a Class ll(+) .
Please re-read my posts !

It's the cove that is rated as a Class lll because of the interaction of the Salmon River + Tidal effect + Moodus River + other smaller tributaries that contribute to the overall rate at which the cove flow can run to the extreme at certain times. (Spring time is when mostly high flows occurs or after very heavy rainfalls)
Salmon Cove can be particularly DANGEROUS when all these elements + opposing wind all come into play. (Common Sense!)

Right now, with water levels so low, Yeah! The cove is relatively peaceful.
There have been past incidents, when I lived there, that have occured in the cove when inexperienced paddlers got caught because they didn't know the multiplying effect of the various waters + Wx.

Too many people don't do their homework before they venture out on the water.
Most of which is just plain common sense and not what is written!

When I taught navigation and water safety -> The 1st thing I made sure of was that my students got drilled into their heads that ..."WATER is a KILLER Exclamation " -> And to ALWAYS be prepared for the unexpected.
Everyone needs to get an immediate respect for water, its power, and effect on the human body!
(Recently I've been asked to teach boating safety localy by the police department).

Wind + Water are the 2 most powerful forces on this planet as we all have seen, per reported floodings, tsunamis, high seas.
Trouble is people forget very fast!

So to repeat -> The Salmon River is, yes, a Class ll(+) water and the Cove is a Class lll water based upon the multiplying effects. (Pretty much Common Sense Exclamation)

This has been repeatedly pointed out (over the years I've watched) by those engaged in whitewater events on the Salmon River & Cove and posted on PaddleNet and per direct contact with those individuals.

Like any other situation -> Written info is good, but only goes so far with general statements -> Experience, Knowledge, Training, and Common Sense are much more determing factors!
Especially when on the water Exclamation

So -> Get off that written general statement -> Your hung up on the word "RAPIDS" and take that statement as some sort of unbreakable gospel Rolling Eyes (Water and Wx don't play by the written word or rules .... EVER!)
Class lll also means waters that are difficut or complex to manuver in Exclamation
The statement is only a general warning of ..... "Hey people, here are conditions you can expect to encounter at this level!"

Best regards,
SeaDog1
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PECo



Joined: 06 Oct 2009
Posts: 5178
Location: Avon, CT

PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What I really dislike is inaccurate information. And it's irresponsible to scream that "the sky is falling" when it's not. Although I'm retired, I still can't help but check sources whenever information is presented to me. There's too much BS floating around in the news and on the Internet for me to do otherwise. And if I'm ever wrong about something, I'm mature enough to admit it. I'd rather get the correct information out there than bluster to protect my fragile ego.

To all of the paddlers, there's no reason to fear paddling in Salmon Cove. You can leave your whitewater helmets at home. Wink
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